rubadubdub Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 I'm having problems copying VBR MP3 files to my MZ-RH10 with Sonicstage 3.1. Haven't tried any earlier versions but with this one if it is a VBR file Sonicstage doesn't detect the average VBR of the whole MP3 file. I don't know how it detects it but it is usually specified as 128kbps.All the MP3 files I transfer to my Minidisc I want to convert to ATRAC 132kbps (due to MP3 sound quality issues and storage space) and I've set this in the transfer settings. But Sonicstage doesn't convert an MP3 that it has detected as having a lower bitrate than 132kbps. My VBR MP3 files tend to have an average of 192 kbps (as shown in winamp) but it detects mine as having 128kbps and transfers them unconverted.I've quite a lot of older MP3s in VBR (these days I only ever use non-VBR 192kbps). Is this a known issue or should I log the problem with Sony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 I'm having problems copying VBR MP3 files to my MZ-RH10 with Sonicstage 3.1. Haven't tried any earlier versions but with this one if it is a VBR file Sonicstage doesn't detect the average VBR of the whole MP3 file. I don't know how it detects it but it is usually specified as 128kbps.All the MP3 files I transfer to my Minidisc I want to convert to ATRAC 132kbps (due to MP3 sound quality issues and storage space) and I've set this in the transfer settings. But Sonicstage doesn't convert an MP3 that it has detected as having a lower bitrate than 132kbps. My VBR MP3 files tend to have an average of 192 kbps (as shown in winamp) but it detects mine as having 128kbps and transfers them unconverted.I've quite a lot of older MP3s in VBR (these days I only ever use non-VBR 192kbps). Is this a known issue or should I log the problem with Sony?←This is not a problem per se. SonicStage 3.1 just do not convert VBR Mp3s to ATRAC/3+. You will need to use a third party software such as dBpowerAMP Music Converter to convert your VBR Mp3s to non-VBR Mp3s; then use SonicStage 3.1 to convert it to ATRAC/3+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDfreak Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 This is not a problem per se. SonicStage 3.1 just do not convert VBR Mp3s to ATRAC/3+. You will need to use a third party software such as dBpowerAMP Music Converter to convert your VBR Mp3s to non-VBR Mp3s; then use SonicStage 3.1 to convert it to ATRAC/3+.←My SonicStage 3.1 converts also VBR to ATRAC3(plus) without any problems. Maybe a corrupt mp3-decoder installed on your PC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 My SonicStage 3.1 converts also VBR to ATRAC3(plus) without any problems. Maybe a corrupt mp3-decoder installed on your PC?←Good point. I will run a trial with my notebook.Edit: Ok, some points of clarification for "rubadubdub." --> You can definitely use SonicStage 3.1 to convert VBR Mp3s to ATRAC/3+. However, you cannot directly transfer/convert VBR Mp3s or non-VBR Mp3s from your music library to the RH10 as ATRAC/3+. You will have to convert those VBR Mp3s or non-Mp3s to ATRAC/3+ first within SonicStage 3.1.@ MDfreak: Thanks for pointing out that SonicStage 3.1 can convert VBR Mp3s to ATRAC/3+. One just can't transfer/convert existing VBR Mp3s or non-VBR Mp3s to the second generation Hi-MD device directly as ATRAC/3+. I have to first convert them into ATRAC/3+ with SonicStage 3.1 before doing so. Can you confirm if this is the case with your system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDfreak Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Good point. I will run a trial with my notebook.Edit: Ok, some points of clarification for "rubadubdub." --> You can definitely use SonicStage 3.1 to convert VBR Mp3s to ATRAC/3+. However, you cannot directly transfer/convert VBR Mp3s or non-VBR Mp3s from your music library to the RH10 as ATRAC/3+. You will have to convert those VBR Mp3s or non-Mp3s to ATRAC/3+ first within SonicStage 3.1.@ MDfreak: Thanks for pointing out that SonicStage 3.1 can convert VBR Mp3s to ATRAC/3+. One just can't transfer/convert existing VBR Mp3s or non-VBR Mp3s to the Hi-MD device directly. I have to first convert them into ATRAC/3+ with SonicStage 3.1 before doing so. Can you confirm if this is the case with your system?←Indeed you are right, but the second generation Hi-MD's (I tested with a DH10P) SonicStage CAN transfer VBR and CBR mp3's to Hi-MD without conversion. But because the first generation Hi-MD's cannot play mp3's you also cannot transfer them to a disc without conversion.With the second generation Hi-MD's non-mp3-files like WMA still have to be converted to mp3 or ATRAC before tranfsering is allowed.So the Hi-MD DEVICE "says" to SonicStage if mp3's can be transfered directly. The DH10P accepted mp3's right away. My NH700 (on the same computer) only accepted converted (ATRAC3(plus) files). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 Indeed you are right, but the second generation Hi-MD's (I tested with a DH10P) SonicStage CAN transfer VBR and CBR mp3's to Hi-MD without conversion. But because the first generation Hi-MD's cannot play mp3's you also cannot transfer them to a disc without conversion.With the second generation Hi-MD's non-mp3-files like WMA still have to be converted to mp3 or ATRAC before tranfsering is allowed.So the Hi-MD DEVICE "says" to SonicStage if mp3's can be transfered directly. The DH10P accepted mp3's right away. My NH700 (on the same computer) only accepted converted (ATRAC3(plus) files).←Yes indeed. With the RH10 or any second generation unit, we can transfer VBR and CBR Mp3s to the HiMD as it is. However, if the desired format to be placed onto the RH10 or other second generation unit is ATRAC/3+, conversion of Mp3 --> ATRAC/3+ within SonicStage 3.1 is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 So Ishii, were you having problems with vbr's, and if so, did you fix it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 So Ishii, were you having problems with vbr's, and if so, did you fix it?←Oh, no problem at all. I just realized that you if want to transfer-and-convert existing VBR Mp3s/non-Mp3s from the music library over to a second generation Hi-MD unit as a ATRAC/3+ file, it is necessary that you convert the Mp3 file in question to ATRAC/3+ before doing so. SonicStage 3.1 will not transfer-and-convert (Mp3s to ATRAC/3+) simultaneously to the Hi-MD media - the file will simply remain as Mp3 format in the HiMD media should you just click transfer-and-convert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubadubdub Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 But I don't want to have to convert my VBRs to non-VBR mp3s before copying them to the Minidisc as I'll be loosing sound quality. If I force a convert before copying to the Minidisc and then do a transfer, the mp3 still gets copied as it is, not the converted ATRAC one. I'll do some more testing as I think this is a serious flaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubadubdub Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 Oh, just noticed exact same problem in this forum. Might as well move this discussion to Sonicstage VBR problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 But I don't want to have to convert my VBRs to non-VBR mp3s before copying them to the Minidisc as I'll be loosing sound quality. If I force a convert before copying to the Minidisc and then do a transfer, the mp3 still gets copied as it is, not the converted ATRAC one. I'll do some more testing as I think this is a serious flaw.←No, you do not need to reconvert your VBRs to non-VBR Mp3s before moving them over to the Hi-MD/MD media as ATRAC in its final form.To be clear, if you want to move your VBR Mp3s --> ATRAC3+, you have to use SonicStage 3.1 to convert these VBR Mp3s into ATRAC3+ first. Then you copy or if you will move them over to the Hi-MD/MD media. A simple click on "transfer-and-convert" will not do. SonicStage will not conduct simultaneous conversion of VBR Mp3s into ATRAC3+ during the transfer.I don't think one will lose significant quality by converting VBR Mp3s to ATRAC3+ before transfering them over to the Hi-MD media. It's simply a transfer at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubadubdub Posted May 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 How do you do the copy bit? I've done the pre-convert before but doing a copy in Sonic Stage simply copies the MP3 as before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 How do you do the copy bit? I've done the pre-convert before but doing a copy in Sonic Stage simply copies the MP3 as before.←After you have converted those VBR Mp3 files into ATRAC3+, ensure that you import them back to the music library separately. However, before doing so, it is important that you remove those VBR Mp3s; in other words, you need to separate VBR Mp3s and ATRAC3+ files of the same music track or album. I reckon that is why SonicStage choose to copy the original VBR Mp3s over to your Hi-MD media instead of the converted ATRAC3+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star-trooper Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 (edited) After you have converted those VBR Mp3 files into ATRAC3+, ensure that you import them back to the music library separately. However, before doing so, it is important that you remove those VBR Mp3s; in other words, you need to separate VBR Mp3s and ATRAC3+ files of the same music track or album. I reckon that is why SonicStage choose to copy the original VBR Mp3s over to your Hi-MD media instead of the converted ATRAC3+.←non VBR mp3's are converted to atrac thoughthe prob' is VBR - SS recognizes them as 128kbpsit needs a bug fix fast!!! Edited May 17, 2005 by star-trooper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 non VBR mp3's are converted to atrac thoughthe prob' is VBR - SS recognizes them as 128kbpsit need a bug fix fast!!! ←Welcome to MDCF star-trooper! I reckon a fix is in order with the next version of SonicStage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star-trooper Posted May 22, 2005 Report Share Posted May 22, 2005 Welcome to MDCF star-trooper! I reckon a fix is in order with the next version of SonicStage.←thanks Ishiyoshi! (my honor ) I think the simple solution will be not making SS realize the proper VBRbut just changing the setting of 'lower bitrate won't convert but transfered as is' option... to 'just convert all f**kig files to desired rate at least meanwhile till sony fixes this bug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
star-trooper Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 any news about a fix or smth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishiyoshi Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 any news about a fix or smth?←Unfortunately, nothing at the moment. We can only wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uri75 Posted July 1, 2005 Report Share Posted July 1, 2005 (edited) I'm posting this here since it mostly concerns about the VBR problem in SonicStage. Let me start with a side note: At the moment I have continous problems with PC1 (after couple of reinstalls SS3.1 doesn't recognize my MZ-NH700, but it works fine as external USB drive), while everything works smoothly (albeit slowly) on PC2. Before upgrading to SS3.1 on PC2 I wanted to do some testing, which made me even more reluctant to do the upgrade. Here's my config:PC1====SS3.1 (final install from full EXE from this forum - I will do fresh install from the net in the next test)PIV/2.8GHz1GB RAMWinXP SP1PC2====SS2.0 (installed from bundled CD)PII/333384RAMWin98SEI tested with couple of MP3s imported to SS:x1 (192kbit, 44100Hz Stereo)x2 (190kbit VBR, 44100 Stereo)x3 (320kbit, 44100 Stereo)x4 (128kbit, 44100 Joint Stereo)SS3.1x1 - doesn't play (plays after manual conversion to 256kbps ATRAC3+)x2 - doesn't play (plays after manual conversion to 256kbps ATRAC3+)x3 - playsx4 - doesn't play (plays after manual conversion to 256kbps ATRAC3+)I haven't tried other ATRAC bitrates. BTW, one way to make it play manually converted file is to right click it and remove/delete the MP3 version from properties, since both MP3 and ATRAC are listed. Don't forget to first make a backup of the original MP3 before you remove it with SS. If you simply remove MP3 (for example with Explorer), SS will report a problem with non existing file, even though the path to the ATRAC version has not been changed.SS2.0x1 - plays and can be transfered to MDx2 - plays and can be transfered to MDx3 - plays and can be transfered to MDx4 - plays and can be transfered to MDSo my question is how come SS2.0 works without a glitch if it's so inferior to SS3.1 as stated by couple of ppl in this forum? Edited July 1, 2005 by uri75 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Low Volta Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 So my question is how come SS2.0 works without a glitch if it's so inferior to SS3.1 as stated by couple of ppl in this forum?the main problem with all SS versions <2.3 has actually nothing to do at all with VBR MP3's and I believe is not even being inferior (in every way), but mainly because these early versions all are known to ruin uploads (which IMHO is very problematic as you can only upload once and sometimes even the original discs were corrupted so unreplacable recordings were lost). Since 3.0 SS comes with a built in wav converter, which is also quite handy for recordistsIf you want to use an older version of SS and you make recordings of your own, I really wouldn't "downgrade" to anything before 2.3Volta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uri75 Posted July 2, 2005 Report Share Posted July 2, 2005 That's actually helpful to know since at this point I'm not dealing with my own recordings or any kind of transfering MD->PC.BTW, what's the timeline for SS version updates? I guess 2.0 came out about a year ago and 3.0 year after that... How fresh is 3.1 and is there any explanation why Sony drops all older versions from their site (only FAQ remains), like this would be the most stable software around and you really don't need anyting but the latest release? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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